In my part of the world homosexuality is an abomination - Obasanjo

ADA DIKE

Obasanjo

Former President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria,  author, farmer and soldier, Chief Olusegun Obasanjo GCFR, in a chat with  Patrick Okigbo titled: ‘Defining a Legacy’ bares his mind on personal life and general issues at the Ake Arts and Books Festival that took place in Abeokuta, Ogun State, last week.

Okigbo described him as one of the most prolific writers in Nigeria today. Obasanjo has over a dozen books that he has written, ranging from ‘My Command’, about his experiences in the Nigerian Civil War; ‘Not My Will’, about his service to the nation as Military Head of State; ‘This Animal Called Man’, a philosophical reflection on the nature of man written during his time as a political prisoner; and ‘Nzeogwu’, about his friend and key figure in the January 1966 coup. A new memoir is expected in the coming months.

Born in Ibogun-Olaogun in what was then Abeokuta Province of 1930s colonial Nigeria, during his career in the Nigerian Army, he served in the United Nations Peacekeeping Mission to the Congo in 1961. From there, he was promoted to the position of the General Officer Commanding the third Marine Commando Division of the Nigerian Army during the Civil War, and reached the peak in his career when he was appointed the Head of State and Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the Federal republic of Nigeria from February 13, 1976 to October 1, 1979.

Obasanjo was sworn-in as a democratically elected President of the Federal Republic of Nigerian on May 29, 1999, was re-elected in 2004 and stepped down from the presidency in 2007 at the end of his second term and returned to his farm. He is the chief advocate of the Olusegun Obasanjo Presidential Library.

Excerpts:

Could you tell us a little bit about your childhood and some of the key influences in your childhood that you will attribute your success in life?

Childhood! You have to ask my father and mother. (Laughter). That sounds laughable but it is true. Except what they told me and then of course, what I know when I started knowing my right from my left was.

Let me start from what they told me. My mother met my father when she was sent by my grandmother to our village, where my great grandmother in one way or the other founded. Then, a cousin of my mother’s asked my mother whether she was married and she said no, that she did not know anything about marriage. So, a man from our village asked my mother’s hand in marriage. Then what transpired after that, I don’t know. But, obviously, they got married because I wouldn’t have been born me if they were not married. And they produced me.

Something interesting happened about my date of birth. When I started school, then the teacher asked me about my age and I went home and asked my mother, “mummy, I want to know my date of birth,” and she told me that: “You were born on Ifo Market day. I went under labour when people were going to the market. But by the time they would return, I had you.  Ifo Market day is every five days, so, what day, what month and what year, I don’t know,” said my mother.

My father was a farmer because farming was the only thing that was going on in our village at that period. One day, I was coming back with my father and I don’t know what work I would do in future. Then my father asked me: “This farming we are doing, is it what you prefer to do for the rest of your life”. Then I said, ‘yes’.

 Before then, a cousin of mine had left the village and went to Abeokuta to become a vehicle mechanic. That was the second work I knew apart from farming. When my father asked me what I would like to become, I told him that I would like to be a vehicle mechanic, but he later encouraged me to go to school. That was the first significant accident that happened in my life, my father deciding to send me to school. In those days, there were few schools in the village areas. But he never wanted me to start school in the village because it is believed that students schooling in the city are more brilliant. So I left home and moved to Abeokuta and registered in a school closer to our family compound. It was difficult for me to get registered in school because we were a bit late. We tried many schools including:  We tried five schools including Owu African Church School but was taken because we were late. I was staying with my aunt’s husband then and he was a fisherman. Early in the morning, we would go to the river to fish and sell it to market women. After three months, my father came furiously and asked: “Subo, what are you doing with my son? ...You lazy man, do you want to turn my son to a lazy man like you?” My father’s idea of being a hardworking man is that you wake up at 5 am, before the sun rises; you were already sweating on the farm. Anything less than that, you are a lazy man. He took back to the village and later took me to a nearby village and spoke to the headmaster and asked him to admit me in his school. I was admitted and the story about admission is for another day or whenever I write my memoir you can find it. Because of my age and height, I started in Class one. Then they thought I could jump a class and I jumped. The school terminated in standard two. By that time, the decided to join four schools joined together. So they formed Ibogu United School. I was asked to join standard two and do entrance exam. And I passed. Actually, I was second. I couldn’t spell ‘Shokolokobangoshe’. (Laughter). The school ended in standard so it was either I terminated my education in standard four or I join another school. I went to a school and i was asked to take standard four exams. I went to standard five. The rest is history.

The first thing that influenced my life was my father’s decision to send me to school. The second thing that influenced my childhood was, along the line, while I was in another school, my father’s fortune turned but that school decided to give me what they called scholarship. The scholarship included doing some works like cleaning, washing plates and so on. In form four, it does not matter who you are, you must take a qualified exams. I did, and I passed. I later left after contemplating furthering my education in a higher institution- which was University of Ibadan. So I was studying for General certificate Advanced (GCE) advanced level and at the time applied for a college. I found out I couldn’t read because I was working. I applied somewhere to be a teacher where I told the headmaster that I can teach anything except drawing. When the headmaster wanted to allocate subject to me, he included drawing. What struck me was that we were doing exams while in that school and I passed. We were also allowed to apply for scholarships and I applied.

One day, I was reading Daily Times and saw advertisement for military opening. I applied and enlisted in the Nigerian Army in 1958. I went for training at Aldershot  and was made an officer in the Nigerian Army.

I was also trained in India at the Defence Services Staff College, Wellington and at the Indian Army School of Engineering. He served at 1 Area Command in Kaduna. I was promoted to Chief Army Engineer, and was made commander of 2 Area Command from July 1967, and then the Ibadan Garrison Organisation.  I was also trained in DSSC, Wellington. I commanded the Army's 3 Marine Commando Division during the Nigerian Civil War. I was appointed the Head of State and Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the Federal republic of Nigeria on February 13, 1976.

In 1987, you wrote a book on the late Chukwuma Kaduna Nzeogwu and chronicled a book on him. What is your view concerning Nzeogwu?

The late Chukwuma Nzeogwu was a patriot and nationalist, but that he was naive. He was my friend in the army. I wrote that book just to say what I know about him.

Was the late Chukwuma Kaduna Nzeogwu a hero or a villain?

 For me, he was. There is nobody who knows him that who will not tell you that he was a nationalist. And in that my book, I said that yes, Chukwuma Kaduna Nzeogwu was a nationalist, a patriot, a committed Nigerian, but he was naïve. Whatever you want to take from that, it is to you. But I know him; he was a good friend of mine.

 I came back from a trip a day before the coup but he never told me that he was planning a coup. After the coup he told me that whether he told me or not was one of the hardest decisions he had to make because if he told me and I said no, he shouldn’t, it was too late for him not to go ahead with it; if he told me and I said ‘yes good idea, it was too late to find a role for me. So he then decided not to tell me. I wrote that book just to say what I wanted to say about him. I was not judgemental.

What do you consider as the greatest danger in Nigeria?

Many things, but if you asked the number one, I would say insecurity is the greatest challenge facing the nation.

How can security challenges in Nigeria be controlled?

I remember, I was the country more than two years ago, when the United Nations’ building was bombed and Boko Haram claimed responsibility of bombing the building.  The first thing i did was to call the National Security Agency (NSA) and requested that before anybody makes any statement, let’s know what is going on. I also contacted President Jonathan and the impression he gave me was the same impression NSA gave, that some miscreants perpetrated the act. I went to Mr. President and I told him that I wanted to go for fact finding and he obliged me.  I went to Borno and found that there was an organisation, though they don’t call themselves Boko Haram. Secondly, that organisation has international affiliation. Thirdly, that organisation has an objective. Fourthly, that organisation had grievances because their leader had been killed. Then, they went to court for father in-law of Yusuf and they got compensation.  

I met with the Boko Haram and convinced them to observe a ceasefire during which their grievances will be addressed, but nothing was done about that.

Giving this backdrop, reforms and economy, how do you rate this government?

Below average!

What is your view about homosexual?

I am a conservative and I have no apology for that. I am a Christian; you may think I am not. But I am. I believe a nation starts from the Bible, with a man and a woman. In my part of the world homosexuality is an abomination. It (sex) must be between a man and a woman. If God wanted that type of relationship, He would not have created people male and female.

God did not make a mistake. We should not perverse the work of God. Some people say it is discriminatory to condemn homosexuality. But I know there is no freedom without limit. I can’t say I have freedom and begin to walk the street naked. Society will frown at it. When I just left office as the head of state, I decided to jug in my pants in Abeokuta. They said, ‘Obasanjo has gone mental.’ They said it was bound to be so because I didn’t hand over to Awolowo.

If some people want homosexuality in their own country, so be it. But why must they compel us to do so? Why did they say they won’t give us aid because of that? We are not asking them to have four wives. I believe our society should be sophisticated and civilised. But there are certain cultures that we should not imbibe. Homosexuality is one of such.